I was listening to the Jefferson Exchange show this morning & some guy called up talking about this extremely prevalent but rarely defined political ideology called COMMUNITARIANISM. This ideology is essentially a radical control freak "common goodism". They are economically liberal & socially conservative, but their social conservatism doesn't come in the traditional conservative mold, but in the neo-liberal mold of gun-control, thought control (the hate speech laws are a great example of Communitarian programs) & radical conformity. Communitarians believe that the rights of individual & national sovereignty must be balanced against the rights of the "community." These are the New World Order, One World Government big-state do-gooders that i am constantly plagued by, & now i know what their platform is called! They are essentially the opposite of the classic American radical-individualism, of which i am a practitioner of. Communitarianism is essentially non-dynamic Fascism*. Take away the flash, the pound of the fist, the fancy uniforms & the excitement from Mussolini's Italy, replace the thugs with middle management & therapists & you've got... Hillary Clinton! Anyhow, these wankers want to take away our freedom, homogenize us into a bunch of feel-good boring hermaphrodites on mind control drugs eating regurgitated soy products & leave the driving to them. These people are the opposite of humanity. They are BORING! THEY ARE WRONG! WE MUST OPPOSE THEM AT EVERY TURN! THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO TOOK PLAYBOY & ARCADE MACHINES OUT OF THE 7-11s! THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO GO TRICK-OR-TREATING IN SHOPPING MALLS! These people do not GET what life is about. They want everything to be pleasant at ANY COST. Including, KILLING YOU!
* The redeeming trait of Fascism is the early revolutionary dynamic period ala the Futurists. Take away all of that avant-garde violence & you've got your typical American college town of 2007.
More on this nonsense when i begin to amass an enormous data-base of Communitarian evil.
In the mean-time, i've been listening to alot of the David Emory show. I used to tune in on KALX in Berkeley, before those dildos cut him loose.
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HOLY SHIT! I love it. I can't believe anyone would call themselves "Communitarian"!- What exactly seperates this from Communism?
I've heard people say things like "It's a communitarian principle.", but jeez.
These people want to destroy dynamic human culture and replace it with a mother hen that shits out Prozac and welfare checks.
If anybody says anything like "For the good of the Community..", I recommend going into full-on confrontation mode.
I hate Playboy though..( but still think any private bussiness can sell it if they choose..).
Yay! Libertarian individualists unite!
Not to be devil's advocate or anything but...surely everyone believes that there need to be some compromises made between individual freedom and community good? Even if you're anti-gun control, you don't think you should be allowed to just shoot people if they annoy you, right?
I'm no fan of Hillary Clinton, prison's suck, and I don't even like the idea of compulsory schooling. But radical individualism strikes me as at least as ridiculous as communitarianism, probably as harmful, and certainly more dishonest. Who paid for those highways on which you're constantly riding off into the sunset, anyway?
I'm sorry; I probably shouldn't even read your posts, Sean. We just don't agree about anything, basically.
Here's the deal Noah, i'm not expecting society to reflect my ideas. I don't want society to reflect my ideas. I know that no matter what society is like, i'm gonna be fighting it. It's my deal. So, my beliefs are not a system, they are personal beliefs, unlike most people's ideological hang ups. Sure, i try & gather other people who maybe are similar to me but haven't figured it out or maybe they support those ideas. Not so we can create an individualistic society, but so i can have more support & achieve more of my goals. That said, i don't think it's moral to shoot people who just annoy you, but people should be able to have duels. What it comes down to, is that i'm against authoritarian & totalitarian government & i live my life the way i want to live it, society can fuck itself, & it better not step on my toes. It's a cultural thing, not a political thing, but politically, i oppose things that constrict my culture. See? It makes sense. Diversity!
"Yay! Libertarian individualists unite! "
Oh, I missed that snide, hateful tone..
Where you been Noah?
"Not to be devil's advocate or anything but...surely everyone believes that there need to be some compromises made between individual freedom and community good? Even if you're anti-gun control, you don't think you should be allowed to just shoot people if they annoy you, right?"
Individual Liberty stops where it infringes on anothers' liberty.This is the only asurance of liberty any of us could have. Pretty simple. You don't live in a free society if someone can kill you without cause and without reprecussion.
The problem with taking into account the "good of the community" is that the "good" must be decided upon by those in power - in trying to secure the "good" those who gain power in the "community" must seek to destroy the "bad".It's an engine for hegemonic control and manipulation.
Do you think the "community" should be able to take your home and property if the "community" decides it's in the "common good" Noah? Where do you draw the line?
I differ from Sean in that I would like society to reflect my ideas- I do have an idea of a better system.I don't like the idea of constantly battling whatever system as a matter of course, though I have resigned myself to having to be more of a watchdog/whistleblower than anything else for the foreseeable future; these will always be necessary.Even if my ideal system came into being, we'd need watchdogs and opposition.
I prefer to think of it as "amusingly pugnacious" rather than "snide and hateful." That's diversity for you, I guess.
As I said, I find a lot of libertarian ideas attractive. And it's difficult to figure out where to draw the line between personal liberty and community values. That line is, as you say, often drawn in ways that reflect the interests of those in power. The thing is, people in power are just as likely to push for personal liberty as for communitarian values. Why is Bush opposed to regulating emissions? Is it because he's a champion of liberty? Somehow I don't think so....
I'm getting the tone Noah! Anyhow, i'd really enjoy it if you & Luke would not have too much of a scrap on this post! Exchange emails perhaps. I'd like to cap it off with this idea. Just to clarify. I believe that people should be able to choose what system they live under or oppose or wotever. Choice! There are so many ways to live & so many people who are going to tell you what's right & wrong, that you've got to do what seems right to you, or whatever group you have tell you what to do. If i agree on the society that is telling me what to do, i'll feel fine about that political system. I happened to be born in America under sham-democracy & capitalism. I don't like those systems, but i do like America, or rather, a strange vision of America that i've built up that allows me to be "proud to be an American". My bottom line is that as soon as humans colonize space (soon hopefully), things are going to get very weird culturally & even as far as human biology goes, so i've got to settle what i like in my heart & let that be cool, because that's all i can do. I'm not so hot on forcing other people into my beliefs, because then they are insincerely following a culture. etc etc. All systems fail.
I'm just waiting for the giant stone head named "Zardoz" to show up and give us all a bunch of weapons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zardoz
Hey Sean. Your wishes re: thread dust-up are noted and acknowledged.
I'm with you Aeron. Although, Zardoz degenerates into a tea party deal... kind of like what happens in A Boy & His Dog.
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